Forum Polityka, aktualnościŚwiat

Polsko-bułgarski spór o dzieci

Polsko-bułgarski spór o dzieci

Money.pl / 2009-05-31 17:15
Komentarze do wiadomości: Polsko-bułgarski spór o dzieci.
Wyświetlaj:
ignacy 2054 / 79.191.82.* / 2009-08-24 11:36
A ja jestem zdania że Polska swoje, a konwencja praw dziecka swoje, Polskie sądy mimo iż niewłaściwe do rozpozania sprawy, wydają niejednokrotnie orzeczenia, bo Matkom dzieje się "krzywda", a ojciec nigdy nic nie ma do powiedzenia, a jak jest obcokrajowcem, to wogóle może zapomnieć że ma dzieci.....
artur xxxxxx / 213.158.199.* / 2009-05-31 17:15
Bułgarzy nie cierpią Polaków, nic nowego.
Bułgarzy w przeciwieństwie do Polaków kochają ruskich, tęsknią za ZSRR.
Nie lubią Rumunów, których nie wiem dlaczego uważają za sojuszników Polaków.
Zasadniczo to taki naród, bez elit, gdzie ciemnota stanowi 90% społeczeństwa.
Ten spór o dzieci tylko przelał szalę goryczy.
axxell / 83.143.213.* / 2009-05-31 18:54
to ciekawe, Bułgarzy nie lubia Polaków :), jasnowidz chyba jestes, albo nie lubisz Bułgarów.
Pozatym, z tego co mozna dowiedziec się, w tej sprawie, sytuacja nie jest jednoznaczna, ba wrecz baardzo niejednoznaczna, no i dlaczego to tylko matka ma miec prawo do dzieci, które maja przeciez dwoje rodziców.
to co jest, dla mnie jest przejawem niedojzałości rodziców, a nie kwestia czyja własnością sa dzieci.
Moim zdaniem, jedynym słusznym wyrokiem, wręcz salomonowym, przy takiej niedojrzałości obojga rodziców , było by czasowe przebywanie dzieci z pbojgiem rodziców,
Raz u Ojca , raz u matki.
mozna przy dobrej woli obojga rodziców tak to zorganizowac ze w czas wakacji dzieci sa z jednym z rodziców, a w czasie szkolnym , z drugim rodzicem.
Ale to jest za trudne prawda?
Marcus4Love / 86.44.156.* / 2009-06-02 12:10
Oto list, który wysłałem do Bułgarii
Działanie Bułgarskego Ministerstwa Sprawiedliwości
jest działaniem na szkodę dzieci!

Central Authority
Of Hague Convention
Ministry of Justice
1 Slavyanska St.,
Republic of Bulgaria,
Sofia 1040
Mrs. Maria HRISTOVA

June 01, 2009

Dear Mrs. Hristova,

I am very sorry to learn what happened with treatment of Nikoleta and Pavel Vasilev.

I do believe that court proceeding was according to Bulgarian Law:

Amendment and Supplement of the Code of Civil Procedure, published in SG, issue 84 of 2003, introduces after Art. 501 a new, seventh section, entitled Proceedings on a Child’s Return or on the Exercising of the Right of Access. Art. 502 of it determines the Sofia City Court to be the competent court to review and make decisions on cases on applications for children’s return and for exercising of the right of access. Under Art. 504 of the CCP, in cases under the Convention the Sofia City Court must come with a decision within 30 days from the application’s submission; under Art. 505 the appeal of the Sofia City Court’s decision is filed with the Sofia Court of Appeals within 14 days from the date of the decision, in compliance with the provisions of Art. 197 of the CCP. The Sofia Court of Appeals must come with a decision within 30 days from the date of the submission of the appeal and this decision is final.

If the above dates was properly executed it looks that children established already new “habitual residence” in Bulgaria, and shall not be returned to Poland.

I believe the application submitted by Polish mother was with false pretence and as such shall lead do vacate all court proceedings.

Firstly, according to Polish law (1) if even one parent is a Polish citizen the child is Polish citizen, and (2) Polish citizen can not have another citizenship. In this case on Polish soil the child is only, and ONLY Polish.
Probably on Bulgarian soil a child is Bulgarian, as born from Bulgarian father. I do not know (I will be very happy to get official information) about registration with proper Bulgarian office to be legally Bulgarian, when the child was born in Poland (both children probably are born in Poland I am guessing.)

The Hague Convention on the Civil Aspects of International Child Abduction (Hague Convention in short) shall be executed and a child should be returned to country of the “habitual residence” in this case to Poland, BUT the removal from that country must be tested as “wrongful”.
As I understand it was not tested properly.

Wrongful is, when: (a) It is in breach of rights of custody attributed to a person, an institution or any other body, either jointly or alone, under the law of the State in which the child was habitually resident immediately before the removal or retention; and
(b) at the time of removal or retention those rights were actually exercised, either jointly or alone, or would have been so exercised but for the removal or retention.
If the father, (a) had the formal written statement from mother of the child the removal was not wrongful but authorized – agreed (sic!), and (b) if mother was for long period of time out of Poland without her known whereabouts to father and with children’s father agreement, she did not exercised her parental custody.
Children’s father is claiming that he got formal agreement with mother of children authorized/approved signatures in Bulgarian Embassy in Poland. This claim is easy to verify. In case it is true the Hague convention can not be applied as there is no “wrongful removal” and all court proceedings in Bulgaria in regards to Hague applications must be revoked.
Again, in this case the removal can not be “wrongful”. And Hague Convention does not apply in this case.
Polish Central Authority (in this case Ministry of Justice) shall test the application. It looks, that mother presented false information and it can be treated as a crime.
On the other side of the coin, when the application was received by Bulgarian Central Authority, it shall be tested for removal to be “wrongful”.
Ministry of Justice represented by Ms Miglena Taczewa, is wrong saying that everything is legal – it is not completely legal.
When children were living for approximately 2 years in Bulgaria, Bulgaria started to be children habitual residence, but this is a subject of the local Court decision.
Art. 13 of the Convention: “…the judicial or administrative authority of the requested State is not bound to order the return of the child if the person, institution or other body which opposes its return establishes that - …” and
“ b) there is a grave risk that his or her return would expose the child to physical or psychological harm or otherwise place the child in an intolerable situation.” – the Bulgarian court probably did not
Marcus4Love / 86.44.156.* / 2009-06-02 12:13
contynuacja - Part 2.
(do Bułgarskiego Ministerstwa Sprawiedliwości)

Art. 13 of the Convention: “…the judicial or administrative authority of the requested State is not bound to order the return of the child if the person, institution or other body which opposes its return establishes that - …” and
“ b) there is a grave risk that his or her return would expose the child to physical or psychological harm or otherwise place the child in an intolerable situation.” – the Bulgarian court probably did not consider this situation deeply enough.
And the Convention said next:
”The judicial or administrative authority may also refuse to order the return of the child if it finds that the child objects to being returned and has attained an age and degree of maturity at which it is appropriate to take account of its views.”
Reaction of the girl yelling when she was removed from father’s custody and boy’s run away is the best prove that both children clearly and loudly expressed their will to stay in Bulgaria and with their father.
In my opinion Bulgarian Citizens have all rights to protest and raise this case immediately and as emergency case to Bulgarian Parliament with reporting to the Prosecutor’s Office about abuse of Bulgarian Citizens – Children.
Also Bulgarian Ombudsman (Children Rights Office) shall immediately notified.
The video film publicly available proves the Child Abuse committed by personnel of many organizations.
Also Ministry of Foreign Affairs could be notify to raise a note of removal of Nikoleta Vasilev, Bulgarian citizen over Bulgarian border in violation of Children Rights.
To answer potential arguments related to the action and use by father his physical force can be treated as self-defense and protection of his children rights granted also by Hague Convention. Please compare the method of taking Nikoleta Vasiliev with the last part of the movie clip “Sophie’s Choice.” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYQjsbn4KCM&feature=related
Also the return or non-return of children shall be considered according to Art 12 of the Convention: “…The judicial or administrative authority, even where the proceedings have been commenced after the expiration of the period of one year referred to in the preceding paragraph, shall also order the return of the child, unless it is demonstrated that the child is now settled in its new environment.”
Watching the video from the removal of children I have no questions that IT IS DEMONSTRATED THAT CHILDREN WERE SETTLED IN THEIR NEW ENVIRONMENT in Bulgaria.
It is also very important, that the title and critical part of the Hague Convention is not properly translated in to Polish and according to Polish language semantic only taken children FROM Poland is wrongful. Removal from other country to Poland is not treated, by mistake in the translation, as the Parental Child Abduction.
It shall be taken as an argument not returning children to Poland as long this mistake is not corrected and all parties of the Convention are notified of that correction.
I wish Bulgaria will make wise and successful action for return own citizens Nikoleta and Pavel Vasilev home to lately established new ‘habitual residence” where both were living under custody of their father in Bulgaria in Asenovgrad. Hague convention entitles for such decision.

Best Regards,

mój e-mail:
marcus4love@o2.pl
Neda / 87.126.173.* / 2009-08-24 09:02
A czy ktos zapital DZIECI z kim czuja sie lepiej? Sceny z oderwaniem Nikoletty od ojca w Bulgarii byly wstrzasajace! Matka miala problem z alkoholem; tak, czy nie? Leczyla sie, ale w tej sprawie nigdy nie wiadomo jak dlugo wytrzyma. Ta wspaniala matka niedawno opuscila dzieci i pojechala w swiat na jakis czas, pravda?

Najnowsze wpisy